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TFBW's Forum • View topic - Gosse's Omphalos Hypothesis

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 Post subject: Gosse's Omphalos Hypothesis
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:01 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:49 pm 
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To the best of my knowledge, tree rings reflect different growth rates, and are not necessarily annual (although the cycle of seasons will typically cause variations in growth rates). It's possible that a freshly created tree in the garded of Eden exhibited no growth rings for the same reason that Adam did not have a navel: lack of necessity. For as long as Adam lived and created-trees existed, the whole "creation" story could have been solidly backed by physical evidence of this kind.

Adam would have looked like a healthy adult human when he was one minute old. That's not because he was "created with a history", so to speak, but because he was created in adult form. It just so happens that in our experience every adult human has a certain quantity of history behind it. But the kind of developmental assumptions which would be true for normal people are not true of Adam, since he was formed of a different process.

But so what? Assumptions which are generally true (and useful) can break down in edge cases like this. There is not an organ or tissue of the body about which we do not presuppose a previous growth history, and rightly so, but this has the status of "generally true and useful assumption", not "inviolable universal truth". God is not to blame if you over-extend your assumptions.

That God created a "going concern" is logically necessary. Adam's navel is not a necessity: his vital organs are. Those organs do not "bear in them the evidence of past accretions of growth", since they did not grow. It is, however, an understandable error to interpret those things as though they bore such evidence, given our experience. Some features, such as the absence of a navel, or the absence of other growth artifacts, could well have alerted an investigator to this discontinuity and the corresponding invalidity of the "growth" assumption.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:40 am 
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The subjective passage of time and the subjective simultaneity of events are two different issues. The latter can be mathematically understood through Einstein's relativity, but the former is a deep and mysterious problem indeed. I've written about this during my stint as a philosophy student: see . It contains a bunch of citations to papers in metaphysics because we were given them as study material during that course, not because I'm impressively well-read on the subject (I'm not, really).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm 
When one looks at the omphalos hypothesis from the perspective of relativity, one might imagine Adam sawing the tree and observing its rings. Thus God creates all the "NOWS" going all the way back to the big bang. And all these previous "NOWS" are not necessarily a deception, since, theoretically, going by the Wheeler's delayed choice thought experiment we can have an effect on a "NOW" that occured billions of years ago. So, it is effectively no less real than last Thursday's "NOW" to us mere mortals trapped here in spacetime. :D

I'll take a look at your paper above a little later.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:09 pm 
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You're mixing your relativity and quantum physics. Relativity tells us that the rate of time flow depends on the observer. The particular interpretation of quantum physics that you are citing allows for reverse causation. The consequences of reverse causation are almost too weird to have a coherent conversation about them. I don't think it allows us to get around the "omphalos" issue, though: either history is short or long (in a particular frame of reference); it does not retroactively become longer as needs be. In the two-slit experiment there is reverse causation only within the bounds of existing time: a photon is emitted at time T0, and then some event at time T2 retroactively causes something at time T1.


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